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Finding your potential; breeders you will want to see this :)

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This post is an explanation of the breedimg theory post summary located here, for those who want a more in-depth explantion.

So onto the long explanations…

The goal of many breeders on this site is to reach the highest possible stat – of course. As the highest yet in any breed is produced, the others below become of slightly less worth. For example, reaching the first 740 GSD plummeted the prices of all GSDs below – I remember this time clearly. 730s, being the next best thing and second least common, only reduced a little. But 720’s dropped by hundreds, and as more 740’s and even some 750s have been produced, the 720 GSD now goes for only a couple thousand – sometimes even less. And most of the time, stats below that go for a few hundred.
One day, we may reach the maximum possible lineup/total in a breed. But even then, it will only be one dog, and therefore this will not drop the value of others as of yet. However, if we managed to produce more of these completely maxed out pets, they would eventually become the norm and so, we would hit a cap.
Unfortunately for many breeders, hitting the cap and producing lots of maxed out pups can depreciate the value and could, potentially, put you out of business as more are produced so prices go down. However, that still leaves a lot of other breeds to max out.
Of course, nobody has hit the maximum yet – although some may have come close. But it is not impossible, despite the fact that it will probably never happen. Why, you ask? Well, Foo started in 2008, and it has taken 7 years to get this far with so many breeds; some still haven’t even managed to reach 80% (eg Pugs, Red Huskies) due to the lack of breeders and less amount of the breed produced. It will take at least seven more years to double our efforts, and several years after that to even produce the first maxed out pup. So, technically speaking, we have nothing to worry about.
Something else to stop this is Foo’s breeding algorithm; it is designed to vary results and prevent the system from being maxed out so easily. So whilst it is very possible to completely max out a pup if given sufficient time and method, it may never happen because much of Foo’s results are randomised. You may come across pups in the future that come incredibly close to maxing out, but in actual fact there may be a few points missing on one or two stats, etc etc

Recap…

—> Is it impossible to breed an almost maxed out pet?
—> If yes, how likely is this to happen and why?
—> What does Foo’s algorithm have to do with this?


Okay, I get that, but how do I get good puppies/kittens?

Please disregard stat totals in this part. Stat totals are NOT important to breeding.

The first thing to note is that whilst breeders are all aiming for pets with high stats overall, it is not the high overall stats of parents that will get you this goal. Let me try and lay it out, because this is where it gets a little complicated.
Obviously many members are breeding with the whole ‘compensation’ theme – and they are right to do so. However, there is a little more to that than just finding a partner who has a higher stat to match the one that the other is lacking. To produce an ultra, you need an ultra – or at least very close to ultra – parent set. The same applies with individual statistics.
If one of your pets you are looking to breed has a single stat that is a little low – whether or not it is above or below average does not matter at this point – you need the partner to have that particular stat at 80% or over. Obviously, the lower the partner’s lacking stat, the higher the other parent should be in that stat. In fact, having the higher parent more than 80%, even at something like 90%, increases your chances of bringing this stat up regardless of it’s score.
That being said, as long as one parent has that stat at 80% or over, it does not matter what the other stat is if it is below this; there is still a much greater chance of bringing this stat up than if both parents went below 80%.
Still with me?
I hope so.
Now, I’m not one for maths and numbers really, which is why it took me a lot longer to figure it out than perhaps some of my other breeding counterparts such as Skatzb and WolfHund who have helped me along the way, but I am slowly seeing more and more people on Foo catch onto a theory similar to this; even if it is not quite ‘there’.
So, all in all, if at least one parent has the chosen stat above 80%, you stand a very high chance of bringing the stat up. This goes for all stats as individuals in any breed of pet on Foo.

Remember: Stat total is completely irrelevant. If you focus on bringing all of the stats up as individuals, then you will end up with a high stat total anyway.

Recap…
—> What percent or above do you need an individual stat (or even a stat total) to be in order to produce a high stat baby?


Explanation

Please take note that just because you use this theory, does not mean that every pup you produce from your parents will be a success. But something that has become apparent over time, is that repetition is key. If you have a pair who seem exactly right for each other, chances are that this is correct. You need to breed them more than once – sometimes even around ten times – to meet the probability for that stat total. The more you breed, the higher the probability of producing good stats is. This goes for the amount of times you breed a pair, as well as how many different litters you have in one batch.
Foo’s algorithm is as I say above, but it is also programmed to randomize, with a set level of probabilities for each indiviual breed. Now, why is this level unique to the breed? Because each breed has a different maximum and minimum potential, and this affects what the average for that breed was when they were first released. Furthermore, some will have a much higher average than others due to how much they have been bred, and therefore how many high stat pets there are in existence at the time. So, yes, the probability of producing a high stat baby differs with each breed due to the breed average.
However, the probability of breeding a specific stat total, or even individual stat number, is not only reliant on the breed average (and therefore the overall possibility of getting a high stat) but also the parents’ averages and HPP (Highest potential). The breed average difference between each breed does not affect the way you calculate the litter outcome.
I know, it’s confusing. Hang in there ;)

Recap…
—> What affects the current breed average?
—> What is the maximum and minimum potential for the pet and where on the pet’s stat can you find them?
—> Why does the breed average differ between each breed?
—> Does this affect the method used to calculate the breeding potential?


So, surely that means that calculating HPP is irrelevant?
Uh, no… well, kinda. Almost.
Whilst you may have the most perfectly balanced pair; each complimenting the other’s stats beautifully, with at least one stat above 80% out of the two parents, the HPP is kind of useful in telling how good a pair will be.
However, whilst the HPP is accurate with predicting the overall stat total of their potentially highest offspring, it is not accurate with calculating individual stats. There is always the possibility that a pup can end up with one stat (or even all of them) above or below their parents’ – and hence why some pups have even been known to exceed their parents and the HPP, though this may be very rare indeed.
So, if I had a pup who met the HPP – or came very close to – who came out with one stat weaker than expected, how could he still meet the HPP?
There would be one stat, maybe even two, that would have to be higher than the highest parent to be able to achieve this – and this does happen. So, again, whilst the HPP is accurate for stat total prediction, it is not helpful with predicting individual stat outcome.

Remember: Each individual stat adds up to the total, so focussing on boosting them one at a time without looking at the bigger picture, will actually get you into the bigger picture – aka the wanted stat total.

Another thing to note, is that if your HPP for a pair is below 80% overall, then there is also a much less chance of reaching it; let alone exceeding it. For example, I make sure all of my RHs have HPP’s of 640+ (although sometimes I do throwaway litters just because I have LLs to use) – which is the closest I can get to the 80% mark. Many are above this, and I strive to make them all so, as the higher the HPP, the higher the probability of getting an ever higher pup.


Let me show you some examples

My best breeders are those that use the ‘complimenting stats’ theory. However, these breeders are only the best because if you were to add up all of their highest stats combined, they would all be 80%+.

So that you can understand what I am saying below, I am putting down the stat analysis for Red Huskies, to help you follow a little easier.
If a pet’s stat is average or above, it is green. If it is grey then it falls below the average. This ‘average’ is NOT the same as the one I have spoken about prior to this chart. The average here is what it would have been when the breed was first released; the current average depends on how many high stats are in existence for the breed and how much it has been bred. This is very difficult to calculate, but at least you can make a judgement on whether it is high or low at the current time.

Min Average 80% 90% Max.
Int 35 95 124 140 155
Ob 30 85 112 126 140
Br 40 100 128 144 160
Ag 50 105 128 144 160
En 65 128 152 171 190


Kagune X Cerberus
These guys have a HPP of 671, which for the RH breed is incredible <3 It would be nicer if they both had higher endurance, but that is an established issue with the RH breed. Not to get off topic, let me show you why they hold so much potential.
Kagune has an intelligence of 134, which is 86.4% of that stat. (134 divided by 155 is 0.8645… then times that by ten. If you are unsure where I am getting the numbers from, check the chart and the link above, and check Kagune’s stats.) This gives them a well over ultra chance of having a pup with high intelligence. Cerberus’ intelligence may bring this down, however the fact that Kagune makes up for this by being well over 80% balances the scales again; once again increasing the chances.
So, now that one stat has been explained, let’s have a look at the others.
Kagune’s obedience is only one point above 80% (112) at 113, but as said before this has already increased the chance of having a pup with above 80% obedience. But here at EK Kennels, we do not aim for ‘average ultras’. We aim for the highest we can get.
Which is why Cerberus is a godsend in this situation. Cerberus has an obedience of 127, which is a whopping 90.7% – that’s uber, to put it into Foo terms – which increases the chances of high obedience enormously. The fact that Kagune is also above 80% in this stat almost guarantees a litter with high obedience. Although, of course, in order to have the highest possible pups, it would be nice if we could have an even higher obedience just for the sake of achieving the HPP.
As far as the bravery goes, Kagune wins. She has a bravery of 144 (which is a stunning 90% once again) bravery, which more than makes up for Cerberus’ lacking bravery.
Agility is another matter, and Cerberus is taking the trophy for this one. With 133 agility, that gives him an 83.1% ultra and therefore pulling Kagune’s up again.
The endurance for both dogs is well below 80% which is a huge shame, because with that also on their side they really could reach that HPP of 671. However, endurance is the reason that RHs never do. Because it has such a high maximum, it is very hard to reach 80% on this stat.
So, they are a good pair because there is at least one of every stat above 80%.


Putting it into practice…
So, to see if you can understand this I am going to go into teacher mode. Here are some more pairs. If you don’t know how to calculate HPP, or stat total or anything like that, this whole post will probably not make sense xD
I will lay out the stats for you so that you don’t have flick back and forth.

Remember: Please disregard the endurance in these pairings. endurance is very hard to get above 80% in any Red Huskies, so these pairs are based off the other 4 stats. You can still calculate the endurance by all means, however when judging whether or not they are a good pair, the endurance should not be counted as this is not what they are based for.

Here is an example. The crossed off stats are the ones we are not adding up because they are the lesser stat. Check out the two stats of the same (eg both obediences, or both agilities etc) and the lowest one gets cancelled out.

Kenna Kazak
Int. 114 142
Ob. 113 126
Br. 150 110
Ag. 123 127
En. 107 105


Take Kazak’s intelligence, obedience and agility, and add them up with Kenna’s bravery and endurance.

142 + 126 + 150 + 127 + 107 = HPP 652

The ultra stat border for RHs is 644 (80%), so 652 is over this and is therefore safe overall.

Now to check the individual stats.

This is where you need to check the first chart I showed you, which has the borders (maximum, average, minimum and 80% borders etc) to know where I am getting these numbers from.

Int. :: 142/155 = 91.6%
Ob. :: 126/140 = 90.0%
Br. :: 150/160 = 93.75%
Ag. :: 127/160 = 79.3%
En. :: 107/190 = 56.3%

Whilst the agility is only just under 80%, it is close enough to still act like a small boost even if it would be better to be higher. Any lower than this and the pair would not work.

So, all in all, Kazak and Kenna are a good pair.


Your turn :P

Hinami Thor
Int. 137 124
Ob. 115 105
Br. 118 140
Ag. 127 123
En. 111 117


Take the highest stats in the chart – only one of each stat, however.

HPP =137 +115 +140 + 123 + 127 = ___ total.

The ultra stat border for RHs is 644 (80%), so ___ is above/below this and is therefore a good/bad overall potential.

Now to check the individual stats.

This is where you need to check the first chart I showed you, which has the borders (maximum, average, minimum and 80% borders etc) to know where I am getting these numbers from. If you do not know how to calculate the percentages, I suggest you learn how to do so in order to make this work. It was briefly explained how to above.

Int. :: 137/155 = ___%
Ob. :: 115/140 = ___%
Br. :: 140/160 = ___%
Ag. :: 123/160 = ___%
En. :: 127/190 = ___%

Are they a good match? YES/NO
Why? ___


Aleutia Oracle
Int. 132 122
Ob. 118 129
Br. 130 112
Ag. 115 129
En. 119 109

Cross out the stats you don’t want ^^


Take the highest stats in the chart – only one of each stat, however.

HPP =___ +___ + ___ + ___ + ___ = ___ total.

The ultra stat border for RHs is 644 (80%), so ___ is above/below this and is therefore a good/bad overall potential.

Now to check the individual stats.

This is where you need to check the first chart I showed you, which has the borders (maximum, average, minimum and 80% borders etc) to know where I am getting these numbers from.

Int. :: ???/155 = ___%
Ob. :: ???/140 = ___%
Br. :: ???/160 = ___%
Ag. :: ???/160 = ___%
En. :: ???/190 = ___%

Are they a good match? YES/NO


Desire Klykov
Int. 127 122
Ob. 120 120
Br. 111 148
Ag. 132 120
En. 129 119


Take the highest stats in the chart – only one of each stat, however.

HPP =___ +___ + ___ + ___ + ___ = ___ total.

The ultra stat border for RHs is 644 (80%), so ___ is above/below this and is therefore a good/bad overall potential.

Now to check the individual stats.

This is where you need to check the first chart I showed you, which has the borders (maximum, average, minimum and 80% borders etc) to know where I am getting these numbers from.

Int. :: ???/155 = ___%
Ob. :: ???/140 = ___%
Br. :: ???/160 = ___%
Ag. :: ???/160 = ___%
En. :: ???/190 = ___%

Are they a good match? YES/NO


Please note that whilst I have used Red Huskies as an example, this theory is the same for all breeds of FooPets. The only difference is the actual numbers. So for example like 644 is the total 80% mark for RHs, it is not for any other breeds. This is the same for single stats.
Always make note of your breed’s individual stat max/min, average etc.

Another important note is that this is the principle for breeding high stats. The one for breeding low stats is the same except inverted. So if you take my words and replace ‘high’ with ‘low’ and ‘80%’ with ‘50%’, you will understand what I mean. It’s just the backwards version :)

I am very aware that there is a lot of math involved here, I am willing to provide any help you need or exlplain anything you don’t understand. Feel free to copy and paste those questions into this forum if you want to work them out and feel free to post your results.